Comments on: The Next retail affiliate programme debacle - another perspective http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html Welcome to Kieron's blog - the life and times of an Internet Marketeer Fri, 08 Aug 2008 00:43:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: NEXT - pretty vacant | Doug's mouthpiece http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6784 NEXT - pretty vacant | Doug's mouthpiece Fri, 14 Mar 2008 08:38:27 +0000 http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6784 [...] have peeded off lots of affiliates and I don’t want to regurgitate the storey its here and here and here. But its not here , this is the funny link, if bored:) Maybe all their staff [...] [...] have peeded off lots of affiliates and I don’t want to regurgitate the storey its here and here and here. But its not here , this is the funny link, if bored:) Maybe all their staff [...]

]]> By: shane http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6727 shane Fri, 07 Mar 2008 00:58:56 +0000 http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6727 Why are network and agency hands tied ?.. they can make a choice, especially if as Kieron points out that all concernered "are all striving to make the industry a better place" !? . I don't see how any party that keeps quiet on very important issues like this in a storm can ever be seen to, or claim to be striving to make the industry a better place at all, in fact it seems to it seems more to be the case that they are all striving to line their nests with ever more lucrative gold and diamond encrusted, higher profile brand feathers at every opportunity, to attract yet even higher profile brands in, and it would appear to be at any cost too going on the tumbleweed blowing around on the next issue so I'm afraid that the Altruism you allude to in an industry wide context is something practiced only by some affiliates, and very few agencies & networks on some small scale when it suits them to do so. . Maybe I expect too much of the AFFILIATE industry (note the emphasis on "affiliate" there, yes maybe I'm looking for a skewed viewpoint but affiliates do collectively drive the industry more so than merchants, networks or agencies do we not !?) but the network is in the middle and should act accordingly shouldn't it !?, facilitating COMMUNICATION between parties. . You say .."So why on earth would any of those 3 parties put their head over the parapet and say that their clients are indeed treating affiliates badly and to put it mildly, not running their programme at full capacity? You just wouldn’t do it would you? Biting the hand off that feeds you springs to mind." . I say why the hell not.. I've often bit the hand that feeds me, sometimes at great short term financial cost too but if I'm getting shafted in some other way or in danger of it I will bite for greater long term value, Are networks so desparate for clients of high percieved brand worth that they'll take what's thrown at them and shut up ? . Networks have a responsibility to get the best deal for all parties for a program to work well (if they wish to survive, prosper, grow and keep merchant and affiliate respect), where everyone should be an equally treated and a happy partner in the affiliate, network, merchant/agency triangle if a program is to succeed and be long term and everyone wins. . Those affiliates that voice opinons about poor program offerings or bad merchant behaviour shouldn't be punished because it doesn't suit the merchant or agency brand PR plan, it's valid input into WHY someone isn't happy to push your program and should be taken on board, not punished and no network should allow this discrimination to occur on the basis of negative comments made. . . Good point Keith, constructive critiscism is needed.. am sure it'll fall on deaf here's but here's mine. 1) pay a fair rate minimum 5%, we all know what kind of profit margin Next products run at so 2% is a farce ! 2) 30 day cookie, there's no viable excuse on that product range and profit base for paying 2% and a 7 day cookie, it's cheap tricks to get free sales !! 3) communicate with affiliates, try to find our WHY an affiliate is negative instead of just seeking to bin and cut them out of the mix 4) realise you are in a partnership situation, we may be battery hens but if you don't treat us right you wont' be getting any eggs except poor quality ones. 5) Spank the fool(s) that thought the dire treatment you've dished out would go unnoticed, they really don't understand the affiliate market place at all and should be sidelined. I do beg to differ on the closure not being good news though if they continue to ignore valid input and IF they can't offer something that gives affiliates the market value for their traffic (2% pah.. that's just insulting) and they won't see affiliate marketing as a partnership then it would send a message that merchants need to be serious and treat us seriously with a valid offering in order to succeed. . hopefully someone will saddle up Next and turn it from a donkey into a race horse, I don't envy them at all but it'd be good to see them win best merchant in 2008 ;) Why are network and agency hands tied ?.. they can make a choice, especially if as Kieron points out that all concernered “are all striving to make the industry a better place” !?
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I don’t see how any party that keeps quiet on very important issues like this in a storm can ever be seen to, or claim to be striving to make the industry a better place at all, in fact it seems to it seems more to be the case that they are all striving to line their nests with ever more lucrative gold and diamond encrusted, higher profile brand feathers at every opportunity, to attract yet even higher profile brands in, and it would appear to be at any cost too going on the tumbleweed blowing around on the next issue so I’m afraid that the Altruism you allude to in an industry wide context is something practiced only by some affiliates, and very few agencies & networks on some small scale when it suits them to do so.
.
Maybe I expect too much of the AFFILIATE industry (note the emphasis on “affiliate” there, yes maybe I’m looking for a skewed viewpoint but affiliates do collectively drive the industry more so than merchants, networks or agencies do we not !?) but the network is in the middle and should act accordingly shouldn’t it !?, facilitating COMMUNICATION between parties.
.
You say ..”So why on earth would any of those 3 parties put their head over the parapet and say that their clients are indeed treating affiliates badly and to put it mildly, not running their programme at full capacity? You just wouldn’t do it would you? Biting the hand off that feeds you springs to mind.”
.
I say why the hell not.. I’ve often bit the hand that feeds me, sometimes at great short term financial cost too but if I’m getting shafted in some other way or in danger of it I will bite for greater long term value, Are networks so desparate for clients of high percieved brand worth that they’ll take what’s thrown at them and shut up ?
.
Networks have a responsibility to get the best deal for all parties for a program to work well (if they wish to survive, prosper, grow and keep merchant and affiliate respect), where everyone should be an equally treated and a happy partner in the affiliate, network, merchant/agency triangle if a program is to succeed and be long term and everyone wins.
.
Those affiliates that voice opinons about poor program offerings or bad merchant behaviour shouldn’t be punished because it doesn’t suit the merchant or agency brand PR plan, it’s valid input into WHY someone isn’t happy to push your program and should be taken on board, not punished and no network should allow this discrimination to occur on the basis of negative comments made.
.
.
Good point Keith, constructive critiscism is needed.. am sure it’ll fall on deaf here’s but here’s mine.

1) pay a fair rate minimum 5%, we all know what kind of profit margin Next products run at so 2% is a farce !
2) 30 day cookie, there’s no viable excuse on that product range and profit base for paying 2% and a 7 day cookie, it’s cheap tricks to get free sales !!
3) communicate with affiliates, try to find our WHY an affiliate is negative instead of just seeking to bin and cut them out of the mix
4) realise you are in a partnership situation, we may be battery hens but if you don’t treat us right you wont’ be getting any eggs except poor quality ones.
5) Spank the fool(s) that thought the dire treatment you’ve dished out would go unnoticed, they really don’t understand the affiliate market place at all and should be sidelined.

I do beg to differ on the closure not being good news though if they continue to ignore valid input and IF they can’t offer something that gives affiliates the market value for their traffic (2% pah.. that’s just insulting) and they won’t see affiliate marketing as a partnership then it would send a message that merchants need to be serious and treat us seriously with a valid offering in order to succeed.
.
hopefully someone will saddle up Next and turn it from a donkey into a race horse, I don’t envy them at all but it’d be good to see them win best merchant in 2008 ;)

]]> By: Keith http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6726 Keith Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:27:49 +0000 http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6726 I do have sympathy with Buy.at and Affili.net and recognise that for various reasons their hands are tied on this. That is not to say I think they are necessarily right to be silent - there are times when morals should come before financial gain - but I can understand the commercial and political pressures which force individual staff members to be silent (and staff from at least one of them would dearly love to speak out given the chance, but you can't blame any individual not to do so if that jeopardises their career, at the end of the day we all have a responsibility to feed ourselves and our families). That they are talking to Next and i-Level behind the scenes is certainly happening - indeed i-Level have today posted on a4u which I guess is a start. I do agree with Kieron that Next having started posted on the forum should make an appearance on the forum without delay - but I somehow doubt that is going to happen. What maybe we should all be doing though is formulating a clear plan of what we want Next to do - at the moment 99% of the criticism is destructive - let's see if we can't put some constructive criticism together and guide them back on to the right path - otherwise I suspect they will close the programme down which ultimately is not good news for anyone. I do have sympathy with Buy.at and Affili.net and recognise that for various reasons their hands are tied on this. That is not to say I think they are necessarily right to be silent - there are times when morals should come before financial gain - but I can understand the commercial and political pressures which force individual staff members to be silent (and staff from at least one of them would dearly love to speak out given the chance, but you can’t blame any individual not to do so if that jeopardises their career, at the end of the day we all have a responsibility to feed ourselves and our families).

That they are talking to Next and i-Level behind the scenes is certainly happening - indeed i-Level have today posted on a4u which I guess is a start.

I do agree with Kieron that Next having started posted on the forum should make an appearance on the forum without delay - but I somehow doubt that is going to happen.

What maybe we should all be doing though is formulating a clear plan of what we want Next to do - at the moment 99% of the criticism is destructive - let’s see if we can’t put some constructive criticism together and guide them back on to the right path - otherwise I suspect they will close the programme down which ultimately is not good news for anyone.

]]> By: Lee McCoy http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6725 Lee McCoy Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:35:50 +0000 http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6725 Cheers Keiron. I'm partial to the "alternative view" as you know ;-) Cheers Keiron.

I’m partial to the “alternative view” as you know ;-)

]]> By: Elaine http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6724 Elaine Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:26:27 +0000 http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6724 if it puts off merchants who would think of treating Affiliate Marketing in the same way with utter contempt and shoddy practices - good! It will save us all a lot of time and bother. If 'honest' merchants can't see beyond this one bad example, then maybe they shouldn't be in business. if it puts off merchants who would think of treating Affiliate Marketing in the same way with utter contempt and shoddy practices - good! It will save us all a lot of time and bother. If ‘honest’ merchants can’t see beyond this one bad example, then maybe they shouldn’t be in business.

]]> By: James http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6723 James Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:01:30 +0000 http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6723 manner not matter. bloody typos :) manner not matter. bloody typos :)

]]> By: James http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6722 James Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:00:35 +0000 http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6722 Hey Jason. Please don't take my comments that way, you know me well and I am really, really not blaming the affiliates for it in the slightest, far from it as I've made my own comments known in the past. I'm just stating that it's a difficult situation and I wonder if there is a way in the future of raising these concerns in any other matter - more stipulation for debate than saying anyone is in the wrong :) J Hey Jason.
Please don’t take my comments that way, you know me well and I am really, really not blaming the affiliates for it in the slightest, far from it as I’ve made my own comments known in the past.
I’m just stating that it’s a difficult situation and I wonder if there is a way in the future of raising these concerns in any other matter - more stipulation for debate than saying anyone is in the wrong :)
J

]]> By: Kieron http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6721 Kieron Thu, 06 Mar 2008 15:29:05 +0000 http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6721 Lee - valid point. Rest assured that none of my advertisers sway my opinions in any way shape or form. If any one of them tried to shape my mind or change my point of view then I wouldn't hesitate to remove them as advertisers. The advertising on this blog is most welcome but it is not the reason why I launched the blog in the first place. Lee - valid point. Rest assured that none of my advertisers sway my opinions in any way shape or form. If any one of them tried to shape my mind or change my point of view then I wouldn’t hesitate to remove them as advertisers.

The advertising on this blog is most welcome but it is not the reason why I launched the blog in the first place.

]]> By: Jason Dale http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6720 Jason Dale Thu, 06 Mar 2008 15:14:39 +0000 http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6720 James... why are you blaming the affiliates for the issue though? You say "That doesn’t mean that Chris and others are wrong to post it, I don’t have an answer to how else it could be resolved, but I do worry about the perception that it may be giving"... hold on - the situation wouldn't have arisen had Next not taken the path they did. The fault is with Next... don't blame the affiliates for the reaction, blame the action that caused it. James… why are you blaming the affiliates for the issue though? You say “That doesn’t mean that Chris and others are wrong to post it, I don’t have an answer to how else it could be resolved, but I do worry about the perception that it may be giving”… hold on - the situation wouldn’t have arisen had Next not taken the path they did. The fault is with Next… don’t blame the affiliates for the reaction, blame the action that caused it.

]]> By: Lee McCoy http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6719 Lee McCoy Thu, 06 Mar 2008 15:05:24 +0000 http://www.here.org.uk/2008/03/the-next-retail-affiliate-programme-debacle-another-perspective.html#comment-6719 Buy.at's sponsorship of your blog hasn't at all clouded your judgement or swayed your thoughts has it all? I've got nothing against Buy.at, I've recently had some great experiences with them. But, I'm just wondering if any pressure has been brought on you from your near neighbours to publish an alternative view? Buy.at’s sponsorship of your blog hasn’t at all clouded your judgement or swayed your thoughts has it all?

I’ve got nothing against Buy.at, I’ve recently had some great experiences with them. But, I’m just wondering if any pressure has been brought on you from your near neighbours to publish an alternative view?

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