The Next retail affiliate programme debacle - another perspective
Background
Rather than go into detail here, have a read of Frostie’s blog post. It sums up the history of the Next retail affiliate programme and the changes that have happened over the last few months that have led to pretty much universal condemnation by the affiliate community as a whole.
My opinion
I agree with most, the Next programme sucks big time. Why? For all the reasons mentioned in Frostie’s post, namely lowering commission just before Christmas - lowering commission rates is always a bitter pill to swallow, but to do it just before the busiest time of the year? Ouch! So for this reason (amongst others) I don’t promote Next on my sites and most probably never will.
So where is this “another perspective” then Kieron? You’re just saying the same as everyone else
Where my opinion differs is with all the people who are crying for blood from either Buy.at, Affilinet or iLevel. Now I’ve worked with all 3 of these companies and I know quite a few employees in each company - and I can hand on heart say they are all good people who understand Affiliate Marketing and are all striving to make the industry a better place. But….put yourself in their place. Next is a huge brand to have on your books and they will be paying Buy.at, Affilinet and iLevel good money for their services. So why on earth would any of those 3 parties put their head over the parapet and say that their clients are indeed treating affiliates badly and to put it mildly, not running their programme at full capacity? You just wouldn’t do it would you? Biting the hand off that feeds you springs to mind.
Having said that, I don’t know this for a fact but I’d like to wager a fair amount of petrol money that behind the scenes all 3 parties are “advising” Next of ways to improve their programme and deal with the issues raised in the community. And as a few others have pointed out, isn’t that why they get paid? To advise their clients on how to run a programme effectively? Yes of course it is. But haven’t you ever been in a position whereby despite all the great advice you give a client and despite all the arm twisting your client just DOES NOT LISTEN? I know I have. So what do you do then? You can’t publicly post on the A4U Forum and say “hey yeah we know that Next have made some mistakes and we are doing our best to resume normal service.” They would lose the account, simple as that. And as much as we sometimes like to think we live in some sort of Utopian world where money doesn’t matter and principles do - we don’t.
So as Frostie himself quite rightly says, lets not shoot the messenger. We can’t apportion blame to Buy.at, Affilinet or iLevel as their hands are tied. And as I said above, there is no doubt in my mind that they will be trying to get Next back on the straight and narrow - they just won’t be doing it in public.
Now, what really disappoints me…
…is the fact that when Next changed networks earlier in the year they actually made an appearance (a guy named Jonny from Next head office) on the A4U forum and said hello. Great, they are at least attempting to smooth things over and make a fresh start, I mistakenly thought. Unfortunately not though as Jonny seems to have made his last post over a month ago on the 4th February. In my humble opinion I believe it should be Next themselves who should be answering the criticism levied at them. Of course it is their right to be silent but as they have already made an introduction on the forum then why suddenly go quiet when things get a bit hairy? If I were in their shoes I would either defend my business decisions or at least enter into a sensible dialogue as to why they operate the programme in the way they do. To stick their head in the sand (God I’m beginning to sound like Paul) and hope the problem will go away is just the wrong thing to do.
Reputation management
If nothing else Next need to respond as the more and more that we write about them the more and more virtual column inches will begin to appear on the web. Have you done a search for “Next affiliate” on Google recently? 5 of the first 10 results are negative press about the Next affiliate programme. Surely they don’t want this?
What should they do Next? (geddit?)
Whilst the A4U community doesn’t represent every affiliate marketeer in the UK it can be taken as a reasonably accurate straw poll of opinion in the sector. And as anyone who has read this thread or any of the various blog posts about this sad affair then its plain to see that we’re not happy. So may I humbly suggest that Jonny comes home (sorry, my puns are getting as bad as Jason’s) and rejoins the A4U community and opens the lines of communication. You never know, you may just win back some of the affiliates who you have lost in recent weeks.
What I’m listening to right now: DJ Felli ft Neyo, Kanye West, Fabulous, & JD – “Finer Things” Love this track!!
Thursday, March 6th, 2008 at 11:10 am and is filed under Affiliate Marketing. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
Welcome to my blog. My name is Kieron Donoghue and I run UK Offer Media Ltd. I thought it would be fun to post a daily (well hopefully daily) blog, writing about my experiences in Internet Marketing and more specifically Affiliate Marketing. I'll include some personal stuff too, probably about my other passions, music and cars. Please feel free to post your comments and thoughts too.
March 6th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
it’s not often I disagree with you Kieron but I can’t help feeling a tad disappointed with the lack of response from I-level, Buyat and Affilinet. I can’t comment on I-level as I’ve had very little to do with them or their programmes, as far as I’m aware!. But Buyat and Affilinet have, historically, been seen as the good guys. Especially Buyat who were always very proactive and helpful when problems occured with any of their programmes - back in the day when Mal was on the forum 24/7.
I do appreciate that being in business does tend to focus one’s mind on potential fallout from making unneccesary comments - but Affiliate Window managed incredibly well in December when the whole debacle started which was why it was such a shock when Next announced they were moving!
And it is more than simply making errors of judgement - not HONOURING the cookie period is just wrong and although expecting Affiliates to complete a questionnaire doesn’t seem particularly threatening, in this instance it’s very 1984ish!
In Business we all have to work with companies and people who we wouldn’t necessarily want as BFF’s - but where do you draw the line? When do you stop backing a Merchant who appears to have a death wish and has only contempt for it’s affiliates?
The sound of silence from I-level, Buyat and Affilinet is particularly deafening - but speaks volumes.
March 6th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
There’s no way on earth the networks can comment on this. Its not just the Next account they’d lose - they’d also put their other accounts at risk.
This is an issue for Next themselves to comment on.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
I’m with Elaine and disagreeing with you ‘big’ time. I’ve also worked with all 3 of the above mentioned companies and quite frankly 2 out of the 3 suck, 1 I’m still unsure about. I don’t see why you always have to stick up for buy.at Keiron, it’s starting to look like you’re another one of their puppets.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Elaine - I agree that not honouring the cookie is bad practice, as is the form that they send out to potential affiliates. No arguments from me on that score, as I say that’s why I don’t promote Next.
Jules - sad to see you think I’m a “puppet” and that I always “stick up” for Buy.at (are we back in the school playground here with these sort of accusations btw?) The reason I defend Buy.at when I feel it necessary, (although I don’t think I do it a a lot) at all is because I know their company and their people well and they have always without fail acted in a honest and positive manner and gone way above the call of duty to help me and offer advice on growing my business. Its that simple. If you’ve had a different experience then fine, I respect that as well as your right to a different opinion to mine. However I can only call things as I see them, based on my personal experiences. And I certainly wouldn’t call you names for having a different opinion.
I think the issue here is wider than any one particular network or agency though. How do we know for example that as part of the contract Next haven’t stipulated that all of the 3 parties involved must not be involved in discussion on public forums that involve negative elements? They may very well have done, so their hands are tied aren’t they? And how do you know that in quiet, behind the scenes iLevel, Buy.at or Affilinet haven’t had a quiet word of 2 in affiliates ears asking them to be patient while they try to put things right? It may well have happened. But it would not be right to do so on a public forum. As I said in my original post, that responsibility should fall to Next themselves, not their agents.
March 6th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
I understand your point Kieron, but really don’t see why none of the three companies don’t even acknowledge the situation. You say they “can’t publicly post on the A4U Forum and say….” - why can’t they? What exactly stops them? Perhaps it’s “not the done thing” or I am a little but utopian, but a lot of “cannots” are really “don’t want tos” carefully chosen so that no one can take responsibility - perhaps not for the causes, but responsibility to try and get things back on track.
Biggest problem with AM is that no one is prepared to be transparent or be responsible… once upon a time Malcolm would’ve stood up and say “right you guys, we’ve messed up big time and we’re going to sort it” - affiliates listened and believed and promoted Buy.at because of it… that doesn’t happen nowadays.
Perhaps it’s due to “business” and corporate stuffiness, I dunno… perhaps that’s the way things have to work… I do sometimes wonder if it would all work a lot better if there was a bit more openness though.
March 6th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
“And how do you know that in quiet, behind the scenes iLevel, Buy.at or Affilinet haven’t had a quiet word of 2 in affiliates ears asking them to be patient while they try to put things right?” — but if they can do that, why not just say the same thing publically. Too many chinese whispers not enough transparency!
March 6th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
I can point to a number of instances of both in my opinion Buy.at being spineless to protect affiliates from merchants including ourselves & look at i-Levels track record on some programs, plus employees involved across networks, some already mentioned on the forum. Is this trend you are happy to see continue, where the network(s) doesn’t consider all parties equal. And don’t get me started on Buy.at and their brand bidding groups. Only this morning I received a phone call from a very pleasant affiliate, not vociferous like me, about problems he has with Buy.at and the way how affiliate concerns are secondary to the merchants. In my book a sycophantic network is not the type I wish to do business with, and rest assured I’ll let their merchants know about it. Maybe take a cue out of some of the comments from respected affiliates out there, commenting about abstinence & one of Jasons’ recent blogs.
March 6th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Hi mate
Just want to make a correction;
“So as Frostie himself quite rightly says, lets not shoot the messenger. We can’t apportion blame to Buy.at, Affilinet or iLevel as their hands are tied.”
I don’t think blame should be laid at buy.at or Affilinet’s door - however when it comes to iLevel it a different story. I think think i-Level DO need to shoulder blame along with the merchant in question.
I suspect i-Level took the decision to;
- ignore the 7day cookie via awin
- reject any affiliate who airs their thoughts
Therefore I don’t think they can, nor should, escape any blame on this incident. The lack of response from i-Level to me, speaks volumes!
March 6th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
I’ve stayed quiet about this matter so far (recently at least), so think it’s time I put in my 2p..
There are so many ifs, buts and maybes here - at the end of the day we don’t have the full facts, networks work for a client, in this case an agency. They, in my mind, have to respect the wishes of their clients and if that means not making a public statement as of yet, then that is what they should do.
The agency have a client, in this case Next, and could very well be in the same situation.
Something has to give soon, and I expect that someone from NEXT or i-level will respond to the criticism and hopefully go somewhere to bridging the concerns that affiliates have had on the matter.
At the same time, my main worry is that other merchants are looking at the A4U forum, blog posts, and other areas and being “turned off” the idea of affiliate marketing. I have to admit that I would have second thoughts if I thought that my brand could get negative comments (potentially in the SERPS too) like this in such a public way.
That doesn’t mean that Chris and others are wrong to post it, I don’t have an answer to how else it could be resolved, but I do worry about the perception that it may be giving.
Hopefully the whole matter will be resolved soon and I look forward to hearing the response and hope that it eases some of the concern. I do worry that the decision will be to remove the next program altogether and that would not be a good thing in my mind.
James
March 6th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Buy.at’s sponsorship of your blog hasn’t at all clouded your judgement or swayed your thoughts has it all?
I’ve got nothing against Buy.at, I’ve recently had some great experiences with them. But, I’m just wondering if any pressure has been brought on you from your near neighbours to publish an alternative view?
March 6th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
James… why are you blaming the affiliates for the issue though? You say “That doesn’t mean that Chris and others are wrong to post it, I don’t have an answer to how else it could be resolved, but I do worry about the perception that it may be giving”… hold on - the situation wouldn’t have arisen had Next not taken the path they did. The fault is with Next… don’t blame the affiliates for the reaction, blame the action that caused it.
March 6th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Lee - valid point. Rest assured that none of my advertisers sway my opinions in any way shape or form. If any one of them tried to shape my mind or change my point of view then I wouldn’t hesitate to remove them as advertisers.
The advertising on this blog is most welcome but it is not the reason why I launched the blog in the first place.
March 6th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Hey Jason.
Please don’t take my comments that way, you know me well and I am really, really not blaming the affiliates for it in the slightest, far from it as I’ve made my own comments known in the past.
I’m just stating that it’s a difficult situation and I wonder if there is a way in the future of raising these concerns in any other matter - more stipulation for debate than saying anyone is in the wrong
J
March 6th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
manner not matter. bloody typos
March 6th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
if it puts off merchants who would think of treating Affiliate Marketing in the same way with utter contempt and shoddy practices - good! It will save us all a lot of time and bother. If ‘honest’ merchants can’t see beyond this one bad example, then maybe they shouldn’t be in business.
March 6th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Cheers Keiron.
I’m partial to the “alternative view” as you know
March 7th, 2008 at 1:27 am
I do have sympathy with Buy.at and Affili.net and recognise that for various reasons their hands are tied on this. That is not to say I think they are necessarily right to be silent - there are times when morals should come before financial gain - but I can understand the commercial and political pressures which force individual staff members to be silent (and staff from at least one of them would dearly love to speak out given the chance, but you can’t blame any individual not to do so if that jeopardises their career, at the end of the day we all have a responsibility to feed ourselves and our families).
That they are talking to Next and i-Level behind the scenes is certainly happening - indeed i-Level have today posted on a4u which I guess is a start.
I do agree with Kieron that Next having started posted on the forum should make an appearance on the forum without delay - but I somehow doubt that is going to happen.
What maybe we should all be doing though is formulating a clear plan of what we want Next to do - at the moment 99% of the criticism is destructive - let’s see if we can’t put some constructive criticism together and guide them back on to the right path - otherwise I suspect they will close the programme down which ultimately is not good news for anyone.
March 7th, 2008 at 2:58 am
Why are network and agency hands tied ?.. they can make a choice, especially if as Kieron points out that all concernered “are all striving to make the industry a better place” !?
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I don’t see how any party that keeps quiet on very important issues like this in a storm can ever be seen to, or claim to be striving to make the industry a better place at all, in fact it seems to it seems more to be the case that they are all striving to line their nests with ever more lucrative gold and diamond encrusted, higher profile brand feathers at every opportunity, to attract yet even higher profile brands in, and it would appear to be at any cost too going on the tumbleweed blowing around on the next issue so I’m afraid that the Altruism you allude to in an industry wide context is something practiced only by some affiliates, and very few agencies & networks on some small scale when it suits them to do so.
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Maybe I expect too much of the AFFILIATE industry (note the emphasis on “affiliate” there, yes maybe I’m looking for a skewed viewpoint but affiliates do collectively drive the industry more so than merchants, networks or agencies do we not !?) but the network is in the middle and should act accordingly shouldn’t it !?, facilitating COMMUNICATION between parties.
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You say ..”So why on earth would any of those 3 parties put their head over the parapet and say that their clients are indeed treating affiliates badly and to put it mildly, not running their programme at full capacity? You just wouldn’t do it would you? Biting the hand off that feeds you springs to mind.”
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I say why the hell not.. I’ve often bit the hand that feeds me, sometimes at great short term financial cost too but if I’m getting shafted in some other way or in danger of it I will bite for greater long term value, Are networks so desparate for clients of high percieved brand worth that they’ll take what’s thrown at them and shut up ?
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Networks have a responsibility to get the best deal for all parties for a program to work well (if they wish to survive, prosper, grow and keep merchant and affiliate respect), where everyone should be an equally treated and a happy partner in the affiliate, network, merchant/agency triangle if a program is to succeed and be long term and everyone wins.
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Those affiliates that voice opinons about poor program offerings or bad merchant behaviour shouldn’t be punished because it doesn’t suit the merchant or agency brand PR plan, it’s valid input into WHY someone isn’t happy to push your program and should be taken on board, not punished and no network should allow this discrimination to occur on the basis of negative comments made.
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Good point Keith, constructive critiscism is needed.. am sure it’ll fall on deaf here’s but here’s mine.
1) pay a fair rate minimum 5%, we all know what kind of profit margin Next products run at so 2% is a farce !
2) 30 day cookie, there’s no viable excuse on that product range and profit base for paying 2% and a 7 day cookie, it’s cheap tricks to get free sales !!
3) communicate with affiliates, try to find our WHY an affiliate is negative instead of just seeking to bin and cut them out of the mix
4) realise you are in a partnership situation, we may be battery hens but if you don’t treat us right you wont’ be getting any eggs except poor quality ones.
5) Spank the fool(s) that thought the dire treatment you’ve dished out would go unnoticed, they really don’t understand the affiliate market place at all and should be sidelined.
I do beg to differ on the closure not being good news though if they continue to ignore valid input and IF they can’t offer something that gives affiliates the market value for their traffic (2% pah.. that’s just insulting) and they won’t see affiliate marketing as a partnership then it would send a message that merchants need to be serious and treat us seriously with a valid offering in order to succeed.
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hopefully someone will saddle up Next and turn it from a donkey into a race horse, I don’t envy them at all but it’d be good to see them win best merchant in 2008
March 14th, 2008 at 10:38 am
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