Today is the official launch of CardSmart.co.uk, a credit card comparison site headed up by entrepreneur Shakil Khan and Duncan Jennings from eConversions.
Known as Shak to his friends, he's well known as one of the early "movers and shakers" on the web and has led an interesting and varied life, even though he's only 34. He ran away from home at 16, started his working career in McDonalds and labouring on a building site before progressing to being Google's first UK advertiser, moderator at Webmaster World and eventually selling one of his companies to AOL. Given his extraordinary journey from flipping burgers to taking on the giant financial comparison sites in a financial market in turmoil, I thought I would catch up with him and ask him a few questions on his life, his business, his philosophies and what makes him tick.
Like you, I left school at 16 with few qualifications. Do you think life experience and "just doing it" are more important than higher education in order to become a successful entrepreneur?
I left school and ran away from home on my 16th birthday, I was quite bright at school but hated every minute of it. So the times when I wasn't skiving, I was busy selling jeans to the teachers or t-shirts to the students. For me The School of Hard Knocks and the University of Life is the best education I could have wished for.
You once told me that you "live your life in 2 year periods". Explain yourself.
It's taken me a long time to get to know myself, it must be a concentration span issue as I find that every 2 years I sort of need a fresh challenge, new environment and a new goal. It sounds strange but this seems to really work for me looking back over the last 10 years or so.
You moved to China for 2 years in 2004, why? And what did you learn from the experience?
I went travelling round the world as I was feeling kind of burnt out and needed to "find myself". 7 countries and 1 unplanned 48 hour visit to Shanghai and I returned to the UK, a few weeks later I packed my stuff, shut up shop and went to live in China as I wanted to: (a) learn Mandarin (b) learn the Chinese way of business and (c) needed a challenge. I had the BEST time of my life starting all over again in China, made some great friends and learnt to an extent a new way of life, but the golden principles still apply wherever you are. 1, treat people with respect 2, never stop learning and 3, the Chinese Internet space was not ready for me (yet).
After starting a business when living in Shanghai (Lightstate) to raise "pocket money", you then went on to sell it to AOL 2 years later. Tell us a bit more about it and how it came about.
It's funny isn't it, the one business which I had NO grand plans for, ends up being the most successful. I decided to get into lead generation whilst in Shanghai after an MSN chat with Jonny Forster ex MD Commission Junction UK (now @ Spotify). I started in Loans and then replicated the model to life insurance and then finally medical insurance before the exit to AOL. There was NO magic formula and I put the success down to a number of points, a couple which were:
A. Focus on conversion rates NOT the cost of media, it's amazing what taking your conversion rate from eg: 1% to 2% can do for your business model.
B. Understand your clients business model and needs and try and work with them rather than typical affiliate mentality of "I don't give a damn why you ran out of budget".
Why launch CardSmart in the first place? There are already loads of finance comparison sites out there and it's a very crowded sector, what makes your offering special?
Agreed there are lots of comparison sites in the finance space, a few too many if you ask me and most of them seem to have the word "compare" in the name. However I have yet to see a dedicated site for credit cards in the UK which has made an impact and become a household name. I guess rather than take a shotgun approach and aim for 10 targets, we have decided to take the 10 snipers against 1 target approach instead, live, eat, sleep and dream credit cards!
Is part of the reason given above also because your sale to buy.at and AOL stops you from entering certain sectors in the finance space such as loans and life insurance?
Aha, been doing your homework I see Kieron, whilst I can not comment on the above, I can assure you that we had no desire to become just another finance comparison site, plenty of people with much bigger pockets in that area.
CardSmart is a venture between yourself and Duncan Jennings from eConversions. Why partner with someone for this project?
Both Duncan and I have been looking at the credit card sector for quite some time, so it made sense to team up and try and crack the space together. I have known Duncan since 2002 and watched him grow and exit a number of businesses during that time and it's an honour working with him on CardSmart. We both have unique skills which combined make us a very powerful team.
Is the middle of a recession the right time to launch a credit card comparison site?
Let me answer this by giving you a couple of quotes that I firmly believe in. "Only when the tide goes out do you discover who's been swimming naked" (Warren Buffet) and "Fortunes are built during the down market and collected in the upmarket" (Jason Calacanis).
What's it been like building CardSmart over last few months, with the financial crisis and ad budgets together with credit cards being pulled from the affiliate channel?
Think of it as Building a skyscraper with weekly Richter scale level 7 earthquakes taking place. However this effects everyone in this space, so we just have to adjust our model to reflect this and being a small company we can act much quicker to changes in the market.
What's your revenue model with CardSmart?
A mixture of CPC, CPL and CPA, it has to be a win-win situation for us and the card providers.
How will you drive traffic to the site?
The key is NOT be reliant on 1 single source of traffic, so a combination of Paid Search, Display Media, White Label Partnerships, Radio, Press and SEO.
Is CardSmart VC funded?
No it's self funded by Duncan and I. It's funny that when you don't need VC money, it's the exact time they really want to invest. However conversations are always taking place with investors but I can't see us needing outside funding unless we decide to go on acquisition spree of similar or related companies.
Is CardSmart your only project at the moment?
I spent about 80% of time on CardSmart, around 10% on networking and making introductions and about 10% on raising funds and support for Charities, especially ftcf.org.uk.
Are you a techie or marketer?
I am definitely NOT a techie, didn't switch on a computer till 1996. That credit I have to give to my co-director JP Jones, who came to fix my PC in 2001 in exchange for £20 and a McDonalds meal, he has been here ever since and I honestly think he is 1 of the best tech guys in Europe.
What drives you?
Fear of failure and people telling me something is NOT possible.
Why don't you retire?
I don't think I am ready to hit the golf course and bingo clubs just yet!
What is your involvement with Spotify? You first invited me to the beta test months ago and now I'm hooked!
I am close friends with Daniel Ek, the founder and absolutely love the product and what they are doing with it, and I feel it's my duty to spread the Spotify love as much as possible to music fans like you.
What are you listening to right now?
Fight The Power by Public Enemy.
UPDATE: January 16th 2011: Since publishing this interview Shak has now taken up the position of Head of Special Projects at Spotify.
What I'm listening to right now: Prince - "Another Boy"Interview with web entrepreneur Shakil Khan
Today is the official launch of CardSmart.co.uk, a credit card comparison site headed up by entrepreneur Shakil Khan and Duncan Jennings from eConversions.
Known as Shak to his friends, he's well known as one of the early "movers and shakers" on the web and has led an interesting and varied life, even though he's only 34. He ran away from home at 16, started his working career in McDonalds and labouring on a building site before progressing to being Google's first UK advertiser, moderator at Webmaster World and eventually selling one of his companies to AOL. Given his extraordinary journey from flipping burgers to taking on the giant financial comparison sites in a financial market in turmoil, I thought I would catch up with him and ask him a few questions on his life, his business, his philosophies and what makes him tick.
Like you, I left school at 16 with few qualifications. Do you think life experience and "just doing it" are more important than higher education in order to become a successful entrepreneur?
I left school and ran away from home on my 16th birthday, I was quite bright at school but hated every minute of it. So the times when I wasn't skiving, I was busy selling jeans to the teachers or t-shirts to the students. For me The School of Hard Knocks and the University of Life is the best education I could have wished for.
You once told me that you "live your life in 2 year periods". Explain yourself.
It's taken me a long time to get to know myself, it must be a concentration span issue as I find that every 2 years I sort of need a fresh challenge, new environment and a new goal. It sounds strange but this seems to really work for me looking back over the last 10 years or so.
You moved to China for 2 years in 2004, why? And what did you learn from the experience?
I went travelling round the world as I was feeling kind of burnt out and needed to "find myself". 7 countries and 1 unplanned 48 hour visit to Shanghai and I returned to the UK, a few weeks later I packed my stuff, shut up shop and went to live in China as I wanted to: (a) learn Mandarin (b) learn the Chinese way of business and (c) needed a challenge. I had the BEST time of my life starting all over again in China, made some great friends and learnt to an extent a new way of life, but the golden principles still apply wherever you are. 1, treat people with respect 2, never stop learning and 3, the Chinese Internet space was not ready for me (yet).
After starting a business when living in Shanghai (Lightstate) to raise "pocket money", you then went on to sell it to AOL 2 years later. Tell us a bit more about it and how it came about.
It's funny isn't it, the one business which I had NO grand plans for, ends up being the most successful. I decided to get into lead generation whilst in Shanghai after an MSN chat with Jonny Forster ex MD Commission Junction UK (now @ Spotify). I started in Loans and then replicated the model to life insurance and then finally medical insurance before the exit to AOL. There was NO magic formula and I put the success down to a number of points, a couple which were:
A. Focus on conversion rates NOT the cost of media, it's amazing what taking your conversion rate from eg: 1% to 2% can do for your business model.
B. Understand your clients business model and needs and try and work with them rather than typical affiliate mentality of "I don't give a damn why you ran out of budget".
Why launch CardSmart in the first place? There are already loads of finance comparison sites out there and it's a very crowded sector, what makes your offering special?
Agreed there are lots of comparison sites in the finance space, a few too many if you ask me and most of them seem to have the word "compare" in the name. However I have yet to see a dedicated site for credit cards in the UK which has made an impact and become a household name. I guess rather than take a shotgun approach and aim for 10 targets, we have decided to take the 10 snipers against 1 target approach instead, live, eat, sleep and dream credit cards!
Is part of the reason given above also because your sale to buy.at and AOL stops you from entering certain sectors in the finance space such as loans and life insurance?
Aha, been doing your homework I see Kieron, whilst I can not comment on the above, I can assure you that we had no desire to become just another finance comparison site, plenty of people with much bigger pockets in that area.
CardSmart is a venture between yourself and Duncan Jennings from eConversions. Why partner with someone for this project?
Both Duncan and I have been looking at the credit card sector for quite some time, so it made sense to team up and try and crack the space together. I have known Duncan since 2002 and watched him grow and exit a number of businesses during that time and it's an honour working with him on CardSmart. We both have unique skills which combined make us a very powerful team.
Is the middle of a recession the right time to launch a credit card comparison site?
Let me answer this by giving you a couple of quotes that I firmly believe in. "Only when the tide goes out do you discover who's been swimming naked" (Warren Buffet) and "Fortunes are built during the down market and collected in the upmarket" (Jason Calacanis).
What's it been like building CardSmart over last few months, with the financial crisis and ad budgets together with credit cards being pulled from the affiliate channel?
Think of it as Building a skyscraper with weekly Richter scale level 7 earthquakes taking place. However this effects everyone in this space, so we just have to adjust our model to reflect this and being a small company we can act much quicker to changes in the market.
What's your revenue model with CardSmart?
A mixture of CPC, CPL and CPA, it has to be a win-win situation for us and the card providers.
How will you drive traffic to the site?
The key is NOT be reliant on 1 single source of traffic, so a combination of Paid Search, Display Media, White Label Partnerships, Radio, Press and SEO.
Is CardSmart VC funded?
No it's self funded by Duncan and I. It's funny that when you don't need VC money, it's the exact time they really want to invest. However conversations are always taking place with investors but I can't see us needing outside funding unless we decide to go on acquisition spree of similar or related companies.
Is CardSmart your only project at the moment?
I spent about 80% of time on CardSmart, around 10% on networking and making introductions and about 10% on raising funds and support for Charities, especially ftcf.org.uk.
Are you a techie or marketer?
I am definitely NOT a techie, didn't switch on a computer till 1996. That credit I have to give to my co-director JP Jones, who came to fix my PC in 2001 in exchange for £20 and a McDonalds meal, he has been here ever since and I honestly think he is 1 of the best tech guys in Europe.
What drives you?
Fear of failure and people telling me something is NOT possible.
Why don't you retire?
I don't think I am ready to hit the golf course and bingo clubs just yet!
What is your involvement with Spotify? You first invited me to the beta test months ago and now I'm hooked!
I am close friends with Daniel Ek, the founder and absolutely love the product and what they are doing with it, and I feel it's my duty to spread the Spotify love as much as possible to music fans like you.
What are you listening to right now?
Fight The Power by Public Enemy.
UPDATE: January 16th 2011: Since publishing this interview Shak has now taken up the position of Head of Special Projects at Spotify.
What I'm listening to right now: Prince - "Another Boy"
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37 Responses to Interview with web entrepreneur Shakil Khan
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about me
Welcome to my blog. My name is Kieron Donoghue and I am the founder of ShareMyPlaylists.com, ContentNow.co.uk and some other stuff. I have no idea why I'm blue on this photo though but I like it!
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Nice piece! SMSboy.com is also well worth a mention in the above; now that was an idea of Shak’s that was WELL ahead of its time.
So good that the mobile operators raised their inter-network cross charging rates to kill it: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/01/11/uk_mobile_firms_shaft_free/
Great interview ! Shak, see you in China or on a yatch in Europe
This is certainly a great interview. Hats of to this amazing personality that he has touched such remarkable heights in the web-world!
Great interview, it’ll be interesting to see how CardSmart does, I don’t imagine it will be a failure with Shak & Duncan behind it though!
Well done Shak! Great interview Mr. Card smart looks awesome – great job on the styling and brand, and of course Jp’s magic is behind it. Wish you all the best.
Great story Shak. Nice piece. Good luck with http://www.cardsmart.co.uk
Nice interview
Good to see Shak getting straight back on the horse, a lesser man would be sunning himself and getting fat after his previous success so it’s good to see the lean mean business building machine running at full speed!
Best of luck to both Duncan’s and Shak’s teams with CardSmart.co.uk !
I’ve known Shak for a good many years & across a variety of different ventures. His special ability is that he can start up, execute, generate a profit & exit a business. He can then do it again & again – this sets him apart.
CardSmart is probably not going to break new ground – it doesnt have to. A team comprised of Duncan, Shak & JP will simply execute it better and more effectively. That is the difference.
sounds like a killer combo with Shak and Duncan at the helm…
Great interview, I’ve only known Shak a short while in comparison to many, however firstly, when I learned about his new venture, I knew that if anyone can make it work Shak and the team can, recession or no recession. Result after result and a drive and commitment unlike no one else I’ve ever met.
Secondly, they say behind every good man is a women – well, in this particular case I think it’s fair to say that behind every good online entrepreneur is a hard core techie and they come no finer than JP – combine the two with Duncan and it is an unstoppable force.
It’s not just the business idea, but the team that you have driving that idea forward that makes it work. Best of luck guys.
Great interview, even I learned new things about THE man. All the best on the new venture and be it even more succesful than the last one – I bet it will!
Congratulations, Shak, good luck with the new venture!
Having known Shak for about 6 months now I’ve seem him go from strength to strength on the business front. Just when we met he had completed his exit requirements with AOL and we quickly became friends. I credit him entirely for introducing me to business in China, and when he described the idea for Card Smart, coupled with his business philosophy, I knew intuitively that it would be huge! Big Congratulations on the launch and best of luck.
Shak Rocks. Good luck with the new venture!
I remember meeting Shak at PubCon 4 in Boston (’03). He was an endlessly entertaining, massively charismatic force of nature, truly a rock star of the SEM/affilate world. It wasn’t hard to see he’d be very successful before too long. I’m delighted to see that he’s going strong!
I have known Shak for 14 years & known what his been through, nobody deserves the spotlight more than Shak he has worked tremendously hard to be where he is today, Congratulations and may the success story continue.
Really good piece, I have always known Shak’s name in the field but never been overly familiar with his work in specific, nice to hear more about him though and his amazing success, left home at 16 and now that big, I have a lot of respect for people who make it on their own steam like that.
Additional Spotify is amazing, I have used all my invites for frieds!
Good interview! Keep an eye on what Shak is up to and you will know what’s on the cutting edge. Good luck with the new venture!
I have gone through your new credit card site…
Looks nice but it would have been more user friendly if you can add a search or quick search on card specific pages.
All the best
FTCF appear to have borrowed TheOnion’s logo..
Thanks for all the lovely comments and good luck messages above.
Testing times for everyone in the industry, so best knuckle down and get on with the job at hand, which in case anyone forgot is about making some £££s
@Kieron = Thanks for the opportunity to share …
Shak
This is a really interesting interview. I have heard of Shakil Khan but I can’t really say that I knew much about him. What an interesting life!
I will keep an eye out for CardSmart!
Many thanks,
Ruth
Very inspiring interview session here. I couldn’t imagine how a 16 year old run away home boy can turn up so successful in life. Hope you can drop more interviews like this in future.
Shak- kudos from the left coast.
You omit to mention how much partying goes along with your hard earned success!
BADDAASSS!
cool interview, and no need for wishes of luck cause knowing these guys they’ll make it happen! looking forward to watching it grow, and the stories that come from this next adventure
Very interesting interview. I don’t know Shak myself but from this interview I think he’ll make a success of this new venture. Seems a good guy. Thanks for the insight Kieron.
Another cracking interview Kieron – keep them coming!
& what can I say about Mr Khan that hasn’t been said. Maybe the fact that what I thought could be a nice bit of pocket money he found a way to turn into a multi-million pound business. Or the fact that he’s an all round good egg who makes a cracking pot of tea…
I’ve not been as excited about a Geordie/Cockney dream team since Keegan put Shearer and Ferdinand together – will be keeping a very close eye on progress at Cardsmart!
I’ve just been looing at CardSmart and it’s a nice, easy to use site – I’m sure it will be a success.
Great interview. Cardsmart has loads of potential – nice simple design, picking up on a traditionally-neglected segment of financials by affiliates, plus credit card click prices have always seemed pretty favourable vs other financials… Fantastic team of Shak and Duncan too – it has to be a success!
To me this sounds like a training course on how to market, sell and succeed online. Agencies/ Advertisers, sit up and take note. Shak 101 is in session. I am sure that http://www.cardsmart.co.uk has a long life ahead of it. The team behind this project alone is scary enough but to have Shak at the head….. look out.
Thanks Keiron for the great interview. Learnt a lot about the online business.
hi Kieron,
What a life he’s had… and what a great attitude.
Wow. This interview is worth reading twice, or more. I’d love to have a root beer with Shakil.
I love when he said, “It’s funny isn’t it, the one business which I had NO grand plans for, ends up being the most successful.”
Yes, life can be funny that way.
~ Steve, display booths
Shak is not exaggerating when he says he spends 10% of his time introducing great people… and great minds. As a result, his entrepreneurial influence probably spans across many times more businesses than those he’s started himself or invested in.
Kieron, one of the reasons interviews like these are interesting is because these guys have, like you, been there, done it and have the t-shirt. I’d love to see more of these interviews. Perhaps others could write articles as a guest author? I’d also be interested to learn the back story to new projects from leading industry figures. I’d also be willing to promote them on Affiliate Merchants Directory if appropriate.
I am thinking about dropping out of Uni myself. This is my second attempt and I really don’t feel like I am learning anything new. The seo guys seem to be years behind. Its good to know that you don’t have go through education system to be successful.
I liked the interview with Shakil Khan, it just goes to show you, that sometimes steering away from the common norm, doesn’t always result in a bad thing, but you also have to be a motivated person like Shakil to see more success
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